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stenoweb\coryw @coryw

I think I saw @bhtooefr and @calvin use the term "exodus" a few times and I think I discovered what it meant. It wasn't about a mass migration to mastodon, but a migration to a new, similar-but-unrelated-and-incompatible platform?

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@coryw @bhtooefr I think it's the general zeitgeist in that section of twitter - of which some people want to take advantage of this new situation; and some (read: us) are promoting Mastodon instead.

@calvin @bhtooefr *cliks reply all* there's a specific person trying to build an actual thing.

Granted, the whole "omg jack follows bad people" - is that even new or did someone just comb through his follow list in detail?

@coryw @bhtooefr I think boofer would fill you in on that. It's just one of many things that causes that section of Twitter to express dissatisfaction - the question is, will they actually move over to /something/?

@calvin @bhtooefr well like, I know gravis isn't moving, for a few different reasons, chief among them being essentially the perception that masto's a weird internet libertarian fever dream and that the different technical features may or may not "do anything" -- whether the new feeling (and, I feel that the "feeling" of twitter not caring is newer) will change that, IDK. I of course can't find the thread because twitter search is awful.

@coryw @bhtooefr and gl considering how high-volume is feed is!

I think for a while there have been a big feeling that OSS/federated/etc services like these are for dingus nerds (hey look, that's us!) - but maybe the recent discontent in SHT twitter is bringing up the ideas that maybe centralized services, let alone Twitter, aren't good.

Of course, it's the problem of both getting here and dealing with its flaws. boofer says (and I agree) that once a critical mass comes, the rest will follow.

@calvin @coryw @bhtooefr I came across exodus via this Mastodon thread. Something about that response comes off...wrong.

@samis @calvin @bhtooefr The attitude seems to be "I can write a web app too, and make it like twitter but not be twitter" which gravislizard sort of addressed as being against the point of twitter, something mastodon fixes by being interconnected. (I mean, we're having this 4-person threadconvo across three servers, like email but faster.)

@bhtooefr @calvin
The argument appears to be less about himself and more about the everyone else on twitter he sees and interacts with

@coryw @calvin Ultimately I feel like he doesn't /want/ to understand Mastodon, reading through that thread, and he explicitly doesn't want to understand federation, even though there's not much to understand - from an end user perspective, it works kinda like e-mail, but better. However, if the userbase actually did migrate? He probably would end up migrating.

@bhtooefr @calvin

Perhaps that's the point to be made. Gravis doesn't want to be part of the FOSS circlejerk. He wants to go where the people are.

@coryw @calvin But from my perspective, this doesn't feel like a FOSS circlejerk, where something inferior is used because it's FOSS.

It feels like a well thought-out system in most respects (the biggest issues IMO, being on a well-federated server, are with the firehose that is the federated timeline and language filtering of it IMO, but Twitter would be far worse if it had such a "master timeline"), that just needs a critical mass of userbase.

@bhtooefr @calvin

There appears to be reasonably good control of the master feed on the user's perspective. (for example, show only, say, English and German toots), but I'm betting many people will elect not to show it at all.

@coryw @bhtooefr Keep in mind Mastodon has server with their own bubbles - there's the art mastodon, the turbo-SHT mastodon, racing mastodon, etc. - trying to see these circles can be a bit tricky, but IIRC I know the upstream wants to make it better.

@calvin @bhtooefr
I mean, we literally built TECT STENOWEB\ mastodon with an about page that literally says it's for sharepoint lovers, so there's that.

@calvin @coryw To be entirely fair, being in what's been called the flagship server (although technically I think the biggest servers are Japanese), I see a *lot*, and at least what I've seen in the firehose from racing mastodon has merely been bots copying prominent racing organizations' Twitter feeds

@bhtooefr @coryw yeah - I think the most active (other than the flagship) are the Japanese instances (due to commercial instances), the French ones, the art ones, the tech ones, and the SHT ones.

@calvin @bhtooefr

should we consider doing anything to try to really get like, a windows sysadmin or a PAWC kind of community going? This might be a good platform (perhaps better than IRC) for, say, discussing or communicating about TECT itself, for example.

@coryw @calvin At least on, from what I'm seeing, the language filtering doesn't appear to work (either that or there's just a lot of Japanese toots that aren't properly tagged?)

@coryw @bhtooefr another point - I know a lot of the thoughtleaders in SHT-twitter like Zoe Quinn have not only mentioned mastodon, but have actually donated largeish sums to it - have they moved over to it for their stuff? if they quit cold-enough turkey on twitter, perhaps they can get the critical mass on Mastodon.

or maybe they never really weanted Mastodon at all - they just want Twitter but <their demands>, and Mastodon is more of a strike than an exodus.

@calvin @coryw I haven't found her on it, but I think part of the problem is the network effects - Mastodon aims to solve some technical problems with Twitter's centralized administration model, but if all of your friends are on Twitter...

@coryw @calvin I have found some people that I follow over on Twitter that made a clear attempt to use Mastodon and then just... stopped, probably because they didn't have an audience here, and maintaining multiple presences *is* difficult

@calvin @bhtooefr

I know that xychelsea is on mastodon, it looks like she posts pretty similar stuff on both. I don't know about Zoe Quinn, but those kinds of people tend to be able (or they use tools to do it) to manage multiple platforms more easily.

To display my own social exhaustion, I am also not on facebook at all.

@bhtooefr @coryw Agreed. I do think there are weird UI sniggles as a result of being federated, but IIRC, there are workarounds, interest from upstream in patching it over, and there's a big chance they'll both all be on one big server and/or have a social network big enough on a server that papers over federation quirks.

@calvin @bhtooefr

This goes along with what I said... (earlier today?) on here about mastodon feeling like early twitter. Talking to people feels like why I have twitter, and a lot of it is discovery of new people. I met gravis online on twitter *this year* and hung out with him when we went to seattle, something that appears to very be forming here, but it's slow going.

@coryw @calvin AFAIK, someone combed through in detail - I've found some other instances where someone found out that he was following those people and it didn't take off, now it did

@bhtooefr @coryw but I also see a lot of abandoned accounts from last handwringing from a few months ago - that likely informs people's ideas of it being a "failure?"

@calvin @bhtooefr
perhaps! I'll be perfectly honest here, it's difficult for me to keep up the pace posting on twitter, and reading it, so I can't imagine being able to withstand both my previous level of twitter engagement *and*, say, that level of engagement on this thing. Especially if like @samis or others don't ultimately show up and make this a different experience than I get on, say, oshaberi's IRC channels or in the internal maron sharepoint site.

@coryw @calvin @bhtooefr (Disclaimer: I was never really a twitter person.)
You may or may not be interested in say,

@samis @calvin @bhtooefr

I am extremely interested in that, and will look into it or see if there's something I can run on my shellbox to do it.

@coryw @calvin @bhtooefr by the way I looked at the docs. It seems to be regular web app using Ruby and JavaScript...could even run on the same box as mastodon maybe?

@samis @calvin @bhtooefr Probably! Calvin was talking about being able to run other things on the VM we are using. I will admit to not being a skilled Linux system administrator, but he may be able to get it running if there's interest in another instance.

@calvin @bhtooefr

here it is, more directly:

about halfway through the thread he basically describes "what if we pay one or two people with powerful servers to run a really big instance" but the other thing he says a bunch of times is that mastodon's interface is bad, which is pretty much true. It is nowhere near as quick and easy to use as twitter.

@coryw @bhtooefr

1. that's basically what is (or if they find that not far left enough, - it's well integrated enough to paper over federation weirdness as well

2. the UI is... an acquired taste. The platonic ideal™ is we just use whatever clients we like, but that's a bit passing the buck to the user.

@bhtooefr @coryw (and also more exposing weirdness to the user)

@bhtooefr @calvin

I know Chelsea Manning is on here somewhere, I think she's probably actually active, but gosh if I have no idea how to find her and follow her.

Calvin keeps saying "upstream" and if that refers to the flagship node(s) as far as I can tell, they aren't really upstream, they just happen to be big and being peered with that node doesn't exactly do anything for us for content on smaller nodes. (And, xychelsea is not on that specific node anyway.)

@coryw @bhtooefr I mean upstream was in the codebase - flagship is what I define to be as the upstream-maintained node (even though japan does it bigger)

search is... iffy. IIRC, it's not much better on an integrated node.

@coryw @calvin From, if I search for her, I find two accounts - one unofficial with an outdated avatar and no toots, one a mirror bot

@calvin @coryw Interestingly, neither of them on

@bhtooefr @calvin

SO hypothetically I have to go sign up on a big node just for finding people, or are we supposed to eventually get more information from that node?

@coryw @bhtooefr I have no real idea how its supposed to go finding people, especially across nodes. I think it's a case of "tell them your username and probably server"

@calvin @bhtooefr

To follow Jeph Jacques, who also isn't active any longer, I had to type to get it to show in search. So, If I used an external search tool to look up a person and then typed it in, it works, but I can't reliably just type in a name and find someone, at least not yet.

@coryw @calvin And I think that may have only worked because I was already following him, and people on follow me? Not entirely sure how that works

@bhtooefr @coryw Explicitly including server works for search, IIRC?

@calvin @bhtooefr yes, but again -- I only knew jeph was there because I went to bhtooefr's profile on and viewed his follows there.

@coryw @bhtooefr like I know that @danharmon and exist, but they haven't been on their pages since the last time - also, allegedly journalists too?

@calvin @coryw It really feels like discovery is a big issue with starting out a new instance, especially if it's a personal or personal+close friends instance - there's no Fediverse-wide recursive search function, there's only what your server knows, so Google may be what's needed to find people

@bhtooefr @calvin

Which is part of what made me say that it sort of feels like if just a few more people signed into maron and used the microfeed therein.

@coryw @bhtooefr Though the newsfeed is kind of a second class citizen - the tooling was kinda "eh" and MS never developed it, especially after buying Yammer.