@calvin @bhtooefr well like, I know gravis isn't moving, for a few different reasons, chief among them being essentially the perception that masto's a weird internet libertarian fever dream and that the different technical features may or may not "do anything" -- whether the new feeling (and, I feel that the "feeling" of twitter not caring is newer) will change that, IDK. I of course can't find the thread because twitter search is awful.
I think for a while there have been a big feeling that OSS/federated/etc services like these are for dingus nerds (hey look, that's us!) - but maybe the recent discontent in SHT twitter is bringing up the ideas that maybe centralized services, let alone Twitter, aren't good.
Of course, it's the problem of both getting here and dealing with its flaws. boofer says (and I agree) that once a critical mass comes, the rest will follow.
@calvin @coryw @bhtooefr https://mastodon.social/@Gargron/98987432624769563 I came across exodus via this Mastodon thread. Something about that response comes off...wrong.
@samis @calvin @bhtooefr The attitude seems to be "I can write a web app too, and make it like twitter but not be twitter" which gravislizard sort of addressed as being against the point of twitter, something mastodon fixes by being interconnected. (I mean, we're having this 4-person threadconvo across three servers, like email but faster.)
The argument appears to be less about himself and more about the everyone else on twitter he sees and interacts with https://twitter.com/search?q=gravislizard%20mastodon&src=typd
or: "twitter as a technical product isn't the problem" (a thread) https://twitter.com/gravislizard/status/913074147625799680
@coryw @calvin Ultimately I feel like he doesn't /want/ to understand Mastodon, reading through that thread, and he explicitly doesn't want to understand federation, even though there's not much to understand - from an end user perspective, it works kinda like e-mail, but better. However, if the userbase actually did migrate? He probably would end up migrating.
It feels like a well thought-out system in most respects (the biggest issues IMO, being on a well-federated server, are with the firehose that is the federated timeline and language filtering of it IMO, but Twitter would be far worse if it had such a "master timeline"), that just needs a critical mass of userbase.
@calvin @coryw To be entirely fair, being in what's been called the flagship server (although technically I think the biggest servers are Japanese), I see a *lot*, and at least what I've seen in the firehose from racing mastodon has merely been bots copying prominent racing organizations' Twitter feeds
@coryw @bhtooefr another point - I know a lot of the thoughtleaders in SHT-twitter like Zoe Quinn have not only mentioned mastodon, but have actually donated largeish sums to it - have they moved over to it for their stuff? if they quit cold-enough turkey on twitter, perhaps they can get the critical mass on Mastodon.
or maybe they never really weanted Mastodon at all - they just want Twitter but <their demands>, and Mastodon is more of a strike than an exodus.
I know that xychelsea is on mastodon, it looks like she posts pretty similar stuff on both. I don't know about Zoe Quinn, but those kinds of people tend to be able (or they use tools to do it) to manage multiple platforms more easily.
To display my own social exhaustion, I am also not on facebook at all.
@bhtooefr @coryw Agreed. I do think there are weird UI sniggles as a result of being federated, but IIRC, there are workarounds, interest from upstream in patching it over, and there's a big chance they'll both all be on one big server and/or have a social network big enough on a server that papers over federation quirks.
This goes along with what I said... (earlier today?) on here about mastodon feeling like early twitter. Talking to people feels like why I have twitter, and a lot of it is discovery of new people. I met gravis online on twitter *this year* and hung out with him when we went to seattle, something that appears to very be forming here, but it's slow going.
perhaps! I'll be perfectly honest here, it's difficult for me to keep up the pace posting on twitter, and reading it, so I can't imagine being able to withstand both my previous level of twitter engagement *and*, say, that level of engagement on this thing. Especially if like @samis or others don't ultimately show up and make this a different experience than I get on, say, oshaberi's IRC channels or in the internal maron sharepoint site.
here it is, more directly: https://twitter.com/gravislizard/status/879758601186758656
about halfway through the thread he basically describes "what if we pay one or two people with powerful servers to run a really big instance" but the other thing he says a bunch of times is that mastodon's interface is bad, which is pretty much true. It is nowhere near as quick and easy to use as twitter.
1. that's basically what mastodon.social is (or if they find that not far left enough, witches.town) - it's well integrated enough to paper over federation weirdness as well
2. the UI is... an acquired taste. The platonic ideal™ is we just use whatever clients we like, but that's a bit passing the buck to the user.
I know Chelsea Manning is on here somewhere, I think she's probably actually active, but gosh if I have no idea how to find her and follow her.
Calvin keeps saying "upstream" and if that refers to the flagship node(s) as far as I can tell, they aren't really upstream, they just happen to be big and being peered with that node doesn't exactly do anything for us for content on smaller nodes. (And, xychelsea is not on that specific node anyway.)
To follow Jeph Jacques, who also isn't active any longer, I had to type firstname.lastname@example.org to get it to show in search. So, If I used an external search tool to look up a person and then typed it in, it works, but I can't reliably just type in a name and find someone, at least not yet.