> HELIOS HAS FOUND YOU is a user on cronk.stenoweb.net. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse.

Need a lightweight hackable #gopher client in python with a curses interface?

I've got you covered: github.com/enkiv2/misc/blob/ma

(It doesn't support fetching stuff from protocols other than gopher and it assumes everything that isn't a menu is plain text, but whatever.)

@jaycie @enkiv2 what's with the fascination in #gopher all of a sudden? Clean and safe internetting?

@uranther @jaycie
I got into it around 2009, but the main push currently might be the W3C standardizing DRM.

The fediverse attracts technically-inclined people who are frustrated with the status quo, though -- so lots of discussion about gopher, IPFS, xanadu, and other 'alternate computer universes'.

@enkiv2 @uranther @jaycie

Many of us have been frankly sick of it for years. The problem is more political than technical. How to convince thousands and millions that unhealthy things are bad for them and they must depart from their Facebooks and Instagrams and Tumblrs.

The real problem is figuring out how to build it without any support whatsoever.

@h @enkiv2 @jaycie thank you for hacking!! Indeed, the WWW has been co-opted by commercial interests because it wasn't designed to resist them. The Internet is entirely compromised by state actors, again because it wasn't designed to resist them. The only choice now is build a new system which makes the old one obsolete!

Do you have a hashtag or community name of the effort? I know #indieweb and #decentralizedwebsummit and github.com/redecentralize/alte

@uranther @h @enkiv2 @jaycie

For me, it's all about taking back what little control I can in media distribution.

The modern web is insecure, and not ideologically aligned with my interests anymore.

I will embrace indie web stuff, but even the browsers (in the face of EME) are out to get us. So Gopher.

@ajroach42 @uranther @enkiv2 @jaycie

Gopher is clear text over the NSA's internet.

I share many of your views, and I wholeheartedly support the gopher subculture for other reasons as expressed earlier, but using gopher for security reasons is an argument that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

It's like pouring more salt on the fries to make them more nutritive.
They taste better, but the argument for nutrition is moot.

Same as the security argument.

@h @ajroach42 @uranther @jaycie
Agreed. Gopher is not merely non-secret but also unsigned and easily forged, at the protocol level. It should not be used for anything intended to be secret, nor should content transmitted over gopher be trusted to be untampered-with, in the absence of other mechanisms.

(Though you could just encrypt text files with your private key or somebody's public key and serve them over gopher, or sign them with your private key, or whatever.)

@jaycie @uranther @ajroach42 @h
On the other hand, *right now* gopher is dead enough that not even the NSA is probably paying any attention to gopher traffic, and there are no accepted mechanisms for account-oriented (i.e., user-associated) storage over gopher. This makes it a poor match for dragnet surveillance -- 5eyes is probably not looking at gopher traffic unless it's associated with one of a couple thousand specific persons of interest.

@h @ajroach42 @uranther
If we're planning on using gopher seriously (rather than having it be one of twenty or thirty small-scale alternate protocols), we ought to invest in mechanisms for signing, encryption, and onion routing.

(Luckily, these are all solved problems: with the exception of onion routing, every linux distro ships with pretty solid shell tools for handling this, and onion routing is as easy as having a directory of repeaters.)

@enkiv2 @ajroach42 @uranther

If guys want to form a task force to develop a new gopher RFC on that note, I'm all for it.

gopher + DHT most interesting perhaps, would be a BEP, not RFC.
Or content-addressable gopher over IPFS.

@h @enkiv2 @ajroach42 @uranther again, the strength of Gopher is the SHEER simplicity or just sending something to port 70 and getting it back. when you're talking about blockchains or markup parsers... why not just HTTP, and keep your content simple?

@calvin @enkiv2 @ajroach42 @uranther

Blockchain? What blockchain?
Why do you recommend HTTP *and* Gopher? This doesn't make any sense at all.

The whole point is to not use WWW protocols or infrastructure.


@h @enkiv2 @ajroach42 @uranther I've been poking gopher for a while, but with a lot of the new talk about it, a lot of it is just adding extra protocols on top to increase complexity and ultimately bring it up to the point of "why not HTTP?" instead of some relic of a simpler time.

if you want to fight the modern web, putting go-faster stripes on gopher is not the way; you're better off serving better content on HTTP and rejecting the web for apps, and embrace the web for documents.

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